Wednesday, November 4, 2009

Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

I used Speed Razor for about 6 years on a PVR card and then Matrox
Digisuite.
Edited hundreds of commercials and long form too, although outputting
the long form stuff to tape was a dicey situation until the later versions.
It was an interesting platform.
IIRC the owner of the company suddenly shut down the business and
vanished under the heat
of some creditors and possibly some tax authorities.

Dave Marks (used quad machines in my youth but never did a razor edit)

Rieni wrote:
>
>
> That reminds me of an editing tool named Speed Razor, also knows as
> SR. About 12 years ago it was hot, everybody was talking about it.
> And now? Does it still exist?
>
> http://www.computervice.com/razor.html
> <http://www.computervice.com/razor.html>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] Yes, there's a problem with FCP-L digests...

Yahoo says:

======
November 4, 2009 at 6:08 pm

We¹ve been made aware of the fact that users who have their mail settings
set to ³digest² are currently receiving digests after just two or three
messages. Typically digests are sent out at the close of the day, or, once
the group hits 25 messages­ whichever comes first.

The team is aware of the issue and is currently working on a fix. We¹ll keep
you posted, but in the meantime, please accept our apologies for the
truncated digests.
======

That's all I know right now...

Jim
FCP-L co-moderator


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Re: [FCP-L] Digital Cinema Desktop Preview on Book?

Go to System Preferences>Keyboard and check on F keys for use in
applications.

All the best,

Tom

On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Shane Ross wrote:

> Go to the VIEW menu and choose EXTERNAL>ALL FRAMES. Or Apple-F12.
> But then F-12 is an audio button, so that second option might not
> work.
>
> -shane
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Rieni wrote:
>
>> How do I get Digital Cinema Desktop Preview to work fullscreen on a
>> MacBookPro without additional monitor? When I select DCDP in the menu
>> nothing happens, preview remains in small application window.
>>
>> I have the newest FCPS on brand new book.
>>
>> Rieni
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] Re: VITC Sucks

You would think so but that is not the case in my experience with several machines. On Avid with an A-500 digibeta you can choose at the machine control panel and the RS-422 time code follows. The SR-5500 doesn't behave the same way no matter what you choose on the TCR selection. Remember there are more TC options on a 5500. You can tell it to spit 30 frame code down the 422 instead of 24 frame when using the Frame Convert output to add pulldown (A-10 Time Code Sense). Perhaps this architecture is where the difference in functionality stems from. It's like the Avid control is forcing the Auto TCR setting regardless of how the machine is set. I haven't tried this sense 3.5x or later and I no longer have an SR-5500 in house to play with.

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "haventwoncrap" <cutandcover@...> wrote:
>
>
> I would think that switching the TC reader to LTC instead of Auto (on the deck) would spit out the LTC value over 422. It works like that at least when I'm doing VTR to VTR editing with the 5500. I only have FCP and in the device control settings I can choose between LTC, VITC, and LTC+VITC. I switch this to LTC and it ignores the VITC. Can't say for sure about Avid device controls but I'd be surprised if that weren't an option in there somewhere...
>
>
> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@> wrote:
> >
> > The only time VITC suck is when it doesn't match the LTC on your record tape. As far as I know the problem still exists when controlling an SR-5500 with RS-422 and the ltc and vitc don't match there is no way with Avid control to force the record machine to read ltc only down the RS-422. This makes it impossible to make edits. Digibeta decks would follow the switch setting ltc, vitc or auto. For $100,000 plus why should the SR-5500 have this functionality or is it the Avid protocol? Can't remember if the same problem exists with FCP control. Anybody know?
> >
> > --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Zelin" <maxavid@> wrote:
> > >
> > > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and this is why
> > > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks. (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show you what editing really is !).
> > >
> > > Bob zelin
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Phil Mastman
> > > To: FCP-L
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> > >
> > > --Phil Mastman
> > > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> > >
> > > http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> > >
> > > > No, it does not.
> > > >
> > > > Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining original
> > > > VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> > > >
> > > > VideoToolShed
> > > > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > > > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > > > The Netherlands
> > > > +31 24 3553311
> > > > www.videotoolshed.com
> > > > For large files:
> > > > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "John Kilgour" <john@>
> > > > To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> > > > Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> VITC sucks
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>


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[FCP-L] Re: VITC Sucks

I would think that switching the TC reader to LTC instead of Auto (on the deck) would spit out the LTC value over 422. It works like that at least when I'm doing VTR to VTR editing with the 5500. I only have FCP and in the device control settings I can choose between LTC, VITC, and LTC+VITC. I switch this to LTC and it ignores the VITC. Can't say for sure about Avid device controls but I'd be surprised if that weren't an option in there somewhere...


--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@...> wrote:
>
> The only time VITC suck is when it doesn't match the LTC on your record tape. As far as I know the problem still exists when controlling an SR-5500 with RS-422 and the ltc and vitc don't match there is no way with Avid control to force the record machine to read ltc only down the RS-422. This makes it impossible to make edits. Digibeta decks would follow the switch setting ltc, vitc or auto. For $100,000 plus why should the SR-5500 have this functionality or is it the Avid protocol? Can't remember if the same problem exists with FCP control. Anybody know?
>
> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Zelin" <maxavid@> wrote:
> >
> > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and this is why
> > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks. (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show you what editing really is !).
> >
> > Bob zelin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phil Mastman
> > To: FCP-L
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >
> >
> >
> > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> >
> > --Phil Mastman
> > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> >
> > http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> >
> > > No, it does not.
> > >
> > > Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining original
> > > VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> > >
> > > VideoToolShed
> > > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > > The Netherlands
> > > +31 24 3553311
> > > www.videotoolshed.com
> > > For large files:
> > > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Kilgour" <john@>
> > > To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> > > Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > >
> > >
> > >> VITC sucks
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

Don't forget the alcohol "developing solution"! Screw FCP, gimme a
"Smith"! =:-o

---
Bob
------
Robert Griffiths
http://www.FireDancer.tv


On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:20 PM, IAN WILSON wrote:

> Are, the smell of Metal Oxide in the morning.
>
>
>
> Ian Wilson
> Colortape Productions
> Ian@colortape.tv
> 0418 327 082
> Via iPhone
>
> On 05/11/2009, at 9:16 AM, Robert Griffiths <FireDancerProductions@Gmail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> eeeh... or a 2" quad...a razor blade... and a microscope. Not that's
>> real macho editing!
>>
>> ---
>> Bob
>> ------
>> Robert Griffiths
>> http://www.FireDancer.tv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Bob Zelin wrote:
>>
>>> everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your
>>> VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and
>>> this is why
>>> FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
>>> (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
>>> you what editing really is !).
>>>
>>> Bob zelin
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Phil Mastman
>>> To: FCP-L
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
>>>
>>> --Phil Mastman
>>> Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
>>>
>>> http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
>>>
>>>> No, it does not.
>>>>
>>>> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
>>>> original
>>>> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
>>>>
>>>> VideoToolShed
>>>> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
>>>> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
>>>> The Netherlands
>>>> +31 24 3553311
>>>> www.videotoolshed.com
>>>> For large files:
>>>> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Kilgour" <john@digitalcut.com>
>>>> To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
>>>> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> VITC sucks
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Re: [FCP-L] Congrats on the 2k user mark.

Just fear it if the 2012th user's name is John Cusack.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/2012/

Andy Edwards

On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:27 PM, Karl Newman wrote:

> On Nov 4, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Eddie Sullivan wrote:
>
> I'm worried about the world ending when we hit 2012...
>
> I've got to get out of 2009 first.
>
> Karl Newman
> Karl Newman Productions
>
> kwnewman@verizon.net
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] Congrats on the 2k user mark.

On Nov 4, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Eddie Sullivan wrote:

I'm worried about the world ending when we hit 2012...

I've got to get out of 2009 first.

Karl Newman
Karl Newman Productions

kwnewman@verizon.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

Are, the smell of Metal Oxide in the morning.

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 05/11/2009, at 9:16 AM, Robert Griffiths <FireDancerProductions@Gmail.com
> wrote:

> eeeh... or a 2" quad...a razor blade... and a microscope. Not that's
> real macho editing!
>
> ---
> Bob
> ------
> Robert Griffiths
> http://www.FireDancer.tv
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Bob Zelin wrote:
>
>> everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your
>> VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and
>> this is why
>> FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
>> (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
>> you what editing really is !).
>>
>> Bob zelin
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Phil Mastman
>> To: FCP-L
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>>
>>
>>
>> Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
>>
>> --Phil Mastman
>> Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
>>
>> http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
>>
>>> No, it does not.
>>>
>>> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
>>> original
>>> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
>>>
>>> VideoToolShed
>>> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
>>> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
>>> The Netherlands
>>> +31 24 3553311
>>> www.videotoolshed.com
>>> For large files:
>>> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Kilgour" <john@digitalcut.com>
>>> To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
>>> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>>>
>>>
>>>> VITC sucks
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

ABC had a few VPR-2Bs that were somehow modified with an audio 4 for time code. Not sure where or who came up with them but sense ABC had serial number #002 of the Ampex machines I think Ampex and ABC collaborated on it. Maybe Jeff S. could ask Jason over at the Prospect lot what he remembers. Who needs Log and Transfer? I found one of the first Grey Engineering User Bit combiners laying in the back of a rack when I was a maintenance engineer at ABC. I then proceeded to modify every time code reader card in the cmx I squares to read user bits with the flip of a switch. Of course nobody ever used it but I knew it was there for when the time came.

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, John Kilgour <john@...> wrote:
>
> Ch. 3 TC rocks
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:18 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:
>
> > The only time VITC suck is when it doesn't match the LTC on your
> > record tape. As far as I know the problem still exists when
> > controlling an SR-5500 with RS-422 and the ltc and vitc don't match
> > there is no way with Avid control to force the record machine to
> > read ltc only down the RS-422. This makes it impossible to make
> > edits. Digibeta decks would follow the switch setting ltc, vitc or
> > auto. For $100,000 plus why should the SR-5500 have this
> > functionality or is it the Avid protocol? Can't remember if the same
> > problem exists with FCP control. Anybody know?
> >
> > --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Zelin" <maxavid@> wrote:
> > >
> > > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on
> > your VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks,
> > and this is why
> > > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
> > (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
> > you what editing really is !).
> > >
> > > Bob zelin
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Phil Mastman
> > > To: FCP-L
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> > >
> > > --Phil Mastman
> > > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> > >
> > > http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> > >
> > > > No, it does not.
> > > >
> > > > Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
> > original
> > > > VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> > > >
> > > > VideoToolShed
> > > > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > > > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > > > The Netherlands
> > > > +31 24 3553311
> > > > www.videotoolshed.com
> > > > For large files:
> > > > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "John Kilgour" <john@>
> > > > To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> > > > Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> VITC sucks
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

Ch. 3 TC rocks


On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:18 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:

> The only time VITC suck is when it doesn't match the LTC on your
> record tape. As far as I know the problem still exists when
> controlling an SR-5500 with RS-422 and the ltc and vitc don't match
> there is no way with Avid control to force the record machine to
> read ltc only down the RS-422. This makes it impossible to make
> edits. Digibeta decks would follow the switch setting ltc, vitc or
> auto. For $100,000 plus why should the SR-5500 have this
> functionality or is it the Avid protocol? Can't remember if the same
> problem exists with FCP control. Anybody know?
>
> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Zelin" <maxavid@...> wrote:
> >
> > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on
> your VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks,
> and this is why
> > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
> (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
> you what editing really is !).
> >
> > Bob zelin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phil Mastman
> > To: FCP-L
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >
> >
> >
> > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> >
> > --Phil Mastman
> > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> >
> > http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> >
> > > No, it does not.
> > >
> > > Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
> original
> > > VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> > >
> > > VideoToolShed
> > > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > > The Netherlands
> > > +31 24 3553311
> > > www.videotoolshed.com
> > > For large files:
> > > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Kilgour" <john@...>
> > > To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> > > Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > >
> > >
> > >> VITC sucks
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] Re: Considering Canon XH-A1s. Any reviews? Used?

Hi Doug;
Have been using a pair of them for the past 18 months while filming a documentary. They both have worked flawlessly to this point and I am very happy with the image quality. The sound inputs are robust with the XLR jacks and we use a Sony MRC-1 to record to Compact Flash Cards. This is a great little tool and we use it for interview work where reshooting would be impossible. It offers us the option to shoot just to the compact flash card, or to both tape and card. This is the way we use it. That way, it is like having a built in insurance policy with the tape rolling also. Shooting to tape is time consuming but I am not all that bothered by it and like to have the tapes as archival backups after editing. Here is the link to the compact flash card recorder.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580065-REG/Sony_HVR_MRC1K_HVR_MRC1_Memory_Recording_Unit.html#reviews

Steve


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

I remember seeing a demo of this at NAB back in the day. It was
pretty impressive...
On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Rieni wrote:

> That reminds me of an editing tool named Speed Razor, also knows as
> SR. About 12 years ago it was hot, everybody was talking about it.
> And now? Does it still exist?
>
> http://www.computervice.com/razor.html
>
> News: 10/03/98 SR 4.5 Is In Beta. More info to come: features,
> links, etc.
>
> lol!
>
> Rieni
>
> At 4-11-2009 23:16, Robert Griffiths wrote:
> >
> >
> >eeeh... or a 2" quad...a razor blade... and a microscope. Not that's
> >real macho editing!
> >
> >---
> >Bob
> >------
> >Robert Griffiths
> ><http://www.FireDancer.tv>http://www.FireDancer.tv
> >
> >On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Bob Zelin wrote:
> >
> > > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on
> your
> > > VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and
> > > this is why
> > > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
> > > (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
> > > you what editing really is !).
> > >
> > > Bob zelin
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Phil Mastman
> > > To: FCP-L
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> > >
> > > --Phil Mastman
> > > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > <http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html>http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> > >
> > >> No, it does not.
> > >>
> > >> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
> > >> original
> > >> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> > >>
> > >> VideoToolShed
> > >> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > >> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > >> The Netherlands
> > >> +31 24 3553311
> > >> www.videotoolshed.com
> > >> For large files:
> > >>
> > <http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172>http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "John Kilgour" <<mailto:john%40digitalcut.com>john@digitalcut.com
> >
> > >> To:
> > <<mailto:FinalCutPro-L%40yahoogroups.com>FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> > >> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> VITC sucks
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

Been there - Done that! Do not want to go back.

Ever!!!!!!!

Bill Affleck
Wasteland Productions, Inc.
On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Robert Griffiths wrote:

> eeeh... or a 2" quad...a razor blade... and a microscope. Not that's
> real macho editing!
>
> ---
> Bob
> ------
> Robert Griffiths
> http://www.FireDancer.tv
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Bob Zelin wrote:
>
> > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your
> > VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and
> > this is why
> > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
> > (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
> > you what editing really is !).
> >
> > Bob zelin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phil Mastman
> > To: FCP-L
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >
> >
> >
> > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> >
> > --Phil Mastman
> > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> >
> > http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> >
> >> No, it does not.
> >>
> >> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
> >> original
> >> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> >>
> >> VideoToolShed
> >> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> >> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> >> The Netherlands
> >> +31 24 3553311
> >> www.videotoolshed.com
> >> For large files:
> >> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Kilgour" <john@digitalcut.com>
> >> To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> >> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >>
> >>
> >>> VITC sucks
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Bill Affleck
Wasteland Productions, Inc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

That reminds me of an editing tool named Speed Razor, also knows as
SR. About 12 years ago it was hot, everybody was talking about it.
And now? Does it still exist?

http://www.computervice.com/razor.html

News: 10/03/98 SR 4.5 Is In Beta. More info to come: features, links, etc.

lol!

Rieni

At 4-11-2009 23:16, Robert Griffiths wrote:
>
>
>eeeh... or a 2" quad...a razor blade... and a microscope. Not that's
>real macho editing!
>
>---
>Bob
>------
>Robert Griffiths
><http://www.FireDancer.tv>http://www.FireDancer.tv
>
>On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Bob Zelin wrote:
>
> > everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your
> > VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and
> > this is why
> > FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
> > (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
> > you what editing really is !).
> >
> > Bob zelin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phil Mastman
> > To: FCP-L
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >
> >
> >
> > Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
> >
> > --Phil Mastman
> > Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
> >
> >
> <http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html>http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
> >
> >> No, it does not.
> >>
> >> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
> >> original
> >> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> >>
> >> VideoToolShed
> >> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> >> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> >> The Netherlands
> >> +31 24 3553311
> >> www.videotoolshed.com
> >> For large files:
> >>
> <http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172>http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Kilgour" <<mailto:john%40digitalcut.com>john@digitalcut.com>
> >> To:
> <<mailto:FinalCutPro-L%40yahoogroups.com>FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> >> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >>
> >>
> >>> VITC sucks


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Re: [FCP-L] Log and Transfer Q

Oliver is correct, Apple provides no resources to having LAT see your
format, that's up to the owner of the format, it took Panasonic 2
years to write P2 for LAT and only then when they were threatened with
a World boycott of their product at the highest leval.

RED on the other hand have got a rougher task. Although they will
probably use LAT to select the .R3D files, they have to return the RGB
back to FCP to maintain it's GUI and that requires Apple to be totally
in BED with RED, I suspect some ones sleeping on the couch at the
moment. IMHO RED and Assimilate are about to pounce with an editing
solution, it will not run on a Mac but. RED has to keep it's eye on
the ball, they need to open up their format to the world, or this new
RAW format that ARRI, Cannon and Adobe are getting behind, may knock
RED and Apple out of the game. TWT

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 05/11/2009, at 2:30 AM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
> wrote:

>> Roger Shufflebottom wrote:
>> I thought perhaps that L&T would let me transcode
>> selections to an FCP-friendly codec (isn't that what it's for?).
>
> L&T is a lot like Avid's AMA. It's a plug-in API that camera
> manufacturers can use as a hook to get files into FCP. I think it's
> mainly up to the camera manufacturers to write the code for their
> appropriate drivers. In some cases, there's the option to transcode
> and in other cases it's only a rewrap into QT.
>
> FCP natively supports the codecs used for XDCAM, HD, EX, but not the
> native file wrappers. Since Sony's utility does the rewrap, but L&T
> doesn't, I presume it's because Sony is dragging its feet.
>
> - Oliver
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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[FCP-L] Re: AW: [DVDList] Best Buy To Stream Video In Electronics

I would suggest you go to Revision3.com for an example of state of the
art RT streaming. Navigate to the site, best example is "HD Nation"
choose that program, when the embbeded player comes up click
downloads, you will be given a number of options, click on QT and HD,
the latency is very low and it plays at 720 X 1280, it's running
around 1.6 Mb/s. Before APPLE nobbled AGAIN the ability to download
after the time line had filled up, you had the option to save the
cache. That's gone now (it comes Back from TTT). Now before the QT
police jump all over me, this is a browser issue nothing to do with
how the QT is authored, as when you do the same thing in every other
browser, this option returns, it's just F******* Safari they have done
the same thing 3 times before. I suspect it's related to their DRM
sales pitch.

SLAP! Thank you nurse, now where was I.
Revision 3 is where it's at, they have the model right. You can watch
it on their site, stream it in a number different Codecs, it sniffs
your iPhone and gives you a different GUI and finally (my personal
choice) you can subscribe to it on iTunes. Apple will never support
BD, it's finished, they are spending huge amounts of money on new
server farms in the state that Steve got his new liver and hiring
nework Engineers as fast as they can process them. Connect the dots,
APPLE HOBBY TV is about to go to air.

NURSE

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 05/11/2009, at 12:18 AM, Tom Mihalic <tomislav.mihalic@zg.t-com.hr>
wrote:

> Pressing 'Reply' sends your message to the entire DVDList. To reply
> to the author only, you must enter their address manually.
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> I very much doubt that image quality transported
> via the internet will any time soon outperform
> any existing pyhsical media. Ever considered HDCAM? HDCAM SR?
>
> And when you say that Youtube is "more important"
> than Blu-ray, so is probably cocaine, but what does that proove?
> Tom
>
> At 14:00 4.11.2009, you wrote:
>> Pressing 'Reply' sends your message to the
>> entire DVDList. To reply to the author only, you
>> must enter their address manually.
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>> The Image quality that can the transported via the Internet will
>> soon easily
>> outperform that of any existing physical media.
>> However, your Mp3 analogy is totally correct but we have to face
>> the fact
>> that Youtube is more important than Blu-ray these days.
>>
>> Niran
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: dvdlist-admin@dvdlist.tully.com
>> [mailto:dvdlist-admin@dvdlist.tully.com] Im Auftrag von Chasteen,
>> Howard
>> Gesendet: November-04-09 4:52 AM
>> An: dvdlist@dvdlist.tully.com
>> Betreff: RE: [DVDList] Best Buy To Stream Video In Electronics
>>
>> Pressing 'Reply' sends your message to the entire DVDList. To reply
>> to the
>> author only, you must enter their address manually.
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>> >>The popularity of MP3 is often cited as an indicator of how other
>> related
>> media may be consumed. I'd highlight that these files are downloaded,
>> owned
>> and distributed and although there are streaming alternatives the
>> media
>> in
>> the pocket (i.e. local) is as strong as ever.<<
>>
>>
>> I would hate to think that some of the beautiful HD video being
>> captured
>> today would all end up being compressed to the degree that MP3
>> audio is.
>> Yuck MPEG 4 and AVI video is bad enough. We are throwing out the
>> image
>> clarity in exchange for cheap utility.
>>
>> H
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> This message is from the DVDList@tully.com.
>> Contents Copyright (C) 2008 by Geoffrey Tully and the email
>> originator.
>> List archive and subscribe/unsubscribe information is at
>> http://www.tully.com/DVDList
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> This message is from the DVDList@tully.com.
>> Contents Copyright (C) 2008 by Geoffrey Tully and the email
>> originator.
>> List archive and subscribe/unsubscribe
>> information is at http://www.tully.com/DVDList
> _____________________________________________________________________
> This message is from the DVDList@tully.com.
> Contents Copyright (C) 2008 by Geoffrey Tully and the email
> originator.
> List archive and subscribe/unsubscribe information is at http://www.tully.com/DVDList


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

The only time VITC suck is when it doesn't match the LTC on your record tape. As far as I know the problem still exists when controlling an SR-5500 with RS-422 and the ltc and vitc don't match there is no way with Avid control to force the record machine to read ltc only down the RS-422. This makes it impossible to make edits. Digibeta decks would follow the switch setting ltc, vitc or auto. For $100,000 plus why should the SR-5500 have this functionality or is it the Avid protocol? Can't remember if the same problem exists with FCP control. Anybody know?

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Zelin" <maxavid@...> wrote:
>
> everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and this is why
> FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks. (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show you what editing really is !).
>
> Bob zelin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phil Mastman
> To: FCP-L
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>
>
>
> Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
>
> --Phil Mastman
> Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
>
> http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
>
> > No, it does not.
> >
> > Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining original
> > VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
> >
> > VideoToolShed
> > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > The Netherlands
> > +31 24 3553311
> > www.videotoolshed.com
> > For large files:
> > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Kilgour" <john@...>
> > To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> > Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
> >
> >
> >> VITC sucks
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

eeeh... or a 2" quad...a razor blade... and a microscope. Not that's
real macho editing!

---
Bob
------
Robert Griffiths
http://www.FireDancer.tv


On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Bob Zelin wrote:

> everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your
> VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and
> this is why
> FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks.
> (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show
> you what editing really is !).
>
> Bob zelin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phil Mastman
> To: FCP-L
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>
>
>
> Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.
>
> --Phil Mastman
> Sandlot Pictures, Inc.
>
> http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html
>
>> No, it does not.
>>
>> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining
>> original
>> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
>>
>> VideoToolShed
>> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
>> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
>> The Netherlands
>> +31 24 3553311
>> www.videotoolshed.com
>> For large files:
>> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Kilgour" <john@digitalcut.com>
>> To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
>> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>>
>>
>>> VITC sucks
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Re: [FCP-L] Flash card adapters

I battled wierdness with USB drives on my Imac pre chrome model until I discovered the multi card reader was screwing up the usb buss. I went through two types and finally got a sony and no longer had buss issues. Don't know what was going on but the cheapy frys units did mess me up. I was just using it for my wife's camera but it works flawlessly now with the Sony reader. This too was off he shelf at Fry's.


--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, Rick <a_pmb_fan@...> wrote:
>
> That reader is fast only if they use fast media. These days people will go for a class 2 SDHC if they can. IMHO it doesn't really matter what reader you get. If you get a multi card reader, the pins get bent on CF slot. I just ordered my 3 card reader because of that yesterday.
>
> Here is the one I bought. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow. I like this one because it's got a MicroSD card slot, and with all the cell phones in my house, finding those damn adapters in a drawer full of junk is a pain.
>
> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134753
>
>
>  Rick Emery
> www.rickemery.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andy Edwards <aedigitaltv@...>
> To: FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 8:40:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [FCP-L] Flash card adapters
>
> If you care about speed, get one of these:
> http://store.lexar.com/?category=22&subcategory=47&productid=RW034-001
>
> I use it every week to pull in Flash XDR / Nano recordings.
>
> Depending on your camera, the media should be in a Quicktime wrapper 
> and you just copy it to your media drive and import it to FCP with the 
> correct sequence setting.
>
> Andy Edwards
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Jemima Harrison wrote:
>
> > Know nothing about these, but have just bought a cheapie camera (SD) 
> > for
> > contributors to use for video-diary stuff that uses flash cards.
> >
> > Need to get the footage on to my G5... What do I need to know about
> > flash-card adapters?
> >
> > Thanking y’all in anticipation.
> >
> > Jemima
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

everything sucks if you don't know the switches and settings on your VTR or editing system. This is why AVID Editors say FCP sucks, and this is why
FCP editors say Premier sucks. Anything you don't know sucks. (eeeh - give me my 1" VTR and my CMX edit controller - I will show you what editing really is !).

Bob zelin

----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Mastman
To: FCP-L
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks



Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.

--Phil Mastman
Sandlot Pictures, Inc.

http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html

> No, it does not.
>
> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining original
> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
>
> VideoToolShed
> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> The Netherlands
> +31 24 3553311
> www.videotoolshed.com
> For large files:
> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Kilgour" <john@digitalcut.com>
> To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>
>
>> VITC sucks
>>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Re: [FCP-L] Digital Cinema Desktop Preview on Book?

That worked, thanks. She looks so much better in full screen.

And the right key combo on a book is Fn-Apple-F12

Rieni

At 4-11-2009 21:05, Shane Ross wrote:
>
>
>Go to the VIEW menu and choose EXTERNAL>ALL FRAMES. Or Apple-F12.
>But then F-12 is an audio button, so that second option might not work.
>
>-shane
>
>On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Rieni wrote:
>
> > How do I get Digital Cinema Desktop Preview to work fullscreen on a
> > MacBookPro without additional monitor? When I select DCDP in the menu
> > nothing happens, preview remains in small application window.
> >
> > I have the newest FCPS on brand new book.
> >
> > Rieni

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Re: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks

Both VITC and LTC suck equally when they do not match on a tape.

--Phil Mastman
Sandlot Pictures, Inc.

http://www.sandlotpictures.com/phil.html


> No, it does not.
>
> Bouke (Who remembers the days that you could offline maintaining original
> VITC and generate an EDL from the offline tape)
>
> VideoToolShed
> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> The Netherlands
> +31 24 3553311
> www.videotoolshed.com
> For large files:
> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Kilgour" <john@digitalcut.com>
> To: <FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:42 PM
> Subject: [FCP-L] VITC Sucks
>
>
>> VITC sucks
>>
>
>


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Re: [FCP-L] FinalCut Pro Editing Mac Rig for Sale

Original Quad 2.66? Not the new one I presume.

>

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
todhopkins@hillmanncarr.com

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Re: [FCP-L] Flash card adapters

That reader is fast only if they use fast media. These days people will go for a class 2 SDHC if they can. IMHO it doesn't really matter what reader you get. If you get a multi card reader, the pins get bent on CF slot. I just ordered my 3 card reader because of that yesterday.

Here is the one I bought. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow. I like this one because it's got a MicroSD card slot, and with all the cell phones in my house, finding those damn adapters in a drawer full of junk is a pain.

www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134753


 Rick Emery
www.rickemery.com


________________________________
From: Andy Edwards <aedigitaltv@mac.com>
To: FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 8:40:47 AM
Subject: Re: [FCP-L] Flash card adapters

If you care about speed, get one of these:
http://store.lexar.com/?category=22&subcategory=47&productid=RW034-001

I use it every week to pull in Flash XDR / Nano recordings.

Depending on your camera, the media should be in a Quicktime wrapper 
and you just copy it to your media drive and import it to FCP with the 
correct sequence setting.

Andy Edwards

On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Jemima Harrison wrote:

> Know nothing about these, but have just bought a cheapie camera (SD) 
> for
> contributors to use for video-diary stuff that uses flash cards.
>
> Need to get the footage on to my G5... What do I need to know about
> flash-card adapters?
>
> Thanking y'all in anticipation.
>
> Jemima
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] Digital Cinema Desktop Preview on Book?

There's another selection called something like Digital Cinema Desktop
Full Screen. If you're viewing SD on an HD monitor it wil do some
crude line doubling, but it works.

--
Jeff Cook
jeff@cookstudios.com
CookStudios.com
703-980-1104 (cell)


On Nov 4, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Rieni <polderien@orange.fr> wrote:

> How do I get Digital Cinema Desktop Preview to work fullscreen on a
> MacBookPro without additional monitor? When I select DCDP in the menu
> nothing happens, preview remains in small application window.
>
> I have the newest FCPS on brand new book.
>
> Rieni
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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Re: [FCP-L] Digital Cinema Desktop Preview on Book?

Go to the VIEW menu and choose EXTERNAL>ALL FRAMES. Or Apple-F12.
But then F-12 is an audio button, so that second option might not work.

-shane

On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Rieni wrote:

> How do I get Digital Cinema Desktop Preview to work fullscreen on a
> MacBookPro without additional monitor? When I select DCDP in the menu
> nothing happens, preview remains in small application window.
>
> I have the newest FCPS on brand new book.
>
> Rieni
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] Digital Cinema Desktop Preview on Book?

How do I get Digital Cinema Desktop Preview to work fullscreen on a
MacBookPro without additional monitor? When I select DCDP in the menu
nothing happens, preview remains in small application window.

I have the newest FCPS on brand new book.

Rieni

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[FCP-L] OT: Anybody want ten thousand used IMX tapes?

That's NOT a typo. Ten Thousand IMX tapes.

We've left Standard Def behind, and these tapes are now
surplus. I'm guessing no one on this list still uses this
format, but if you know of anyone who does, and has any interest
at all, please let them know about this.

Thanks.

Mark Raudonis

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