FCP-L: Nov 17, 2009

Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

I'm personally amazed over and over again to what degree people are willing to spend amazing amounts on hard and software in this industry, but near ZERO for any type of TRAINING to actually work said hard and software proficiently. The training is there, from Apple and others, and you in fact learn (very basic) things like why "Media Limit" in fact does not "suck", but rather why and when you get it and the very simple way of avoiding it, when needed. It's fun to see how fast people will find something stupid/lame/sucky because it's supposedly not working or someone else (Apple?) is stupid or doesn't get it, instead of maybe just admitting or realizing that they simply missing the knowledge. Oh well.

I always drive on the right side when in GB, just to make the point that they're lame and their traffic laws are broken and sucky and I know better. Weird how unappreciative them brits can be. :-P

As far as an Avid layout for FCP is concerned:

http://files.me.com/loyed/oddbtm

From PVCs Scott Simmons. Been there for ages. No idea if it's any good tho. Haven't worked Avid since 2001 either.

The training part goes for Motion as well of course. Since it follows a *completely* different paradigm as AE and they are no way *near* interchangeable and also positioned *completely* different. If you don't know that, you don't know Motion. Therefore to assume that by somehow changing it into some mini-AE by simply remapping the keyboard (which wouldn't even get close to working btw) will suddenly magically make you a skillful Motion operator, strikes me personally as rather near-sighted.

But I'm sure to be flamed accordingly now that I've dared to doubt anyone's ability I'm sure... :)

Rob

On 18.11.2009, at 08:03, Steve Hullfish wrote:

> I know that Premiere has an Avid and an FCP keyboard setting that you
> can just call up.
>
> It doesn't look like FCP has the same thing. It wouldn't be hard to
> create one and load it.
>
> In FCP go to Tools > Keyboard layout > Customize or Load or Save
> Layout. So if someone made one, it should be easy to load.
>
> You should be able to make an Avid FCP keyboard layout in about 10
> minutes.
>
> By the way, I believe, Loren is a man...
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote:
>
>>> Some of you might find Loren Miller's post helpful:
>>>
>>> http://www.avid2fcp.com/?p=20
>>
>> I see that she mentions how you can change the keyboard in FCP to be
>> more like Avid's, but I don't see a layout you can just download. (If
>> it's there, please point me to it! I admit I didn't look real
>> carefully.) Would people find it helpful if there was an Avid-like
>> layout that either came with the app, or that you could download
>> easily?
>>
>> Likewise with Motion and After Effects. Would it be useful to have an
>> After Effects-like keyboard layout you could just switch to?
>>
>> Darrin
>> --
>> Darrin Cardani
>> darrin.cardani@gmail.com
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Coming up with an FCP keyboard that could be used with Avid should be
very easy to do. But there isn't an FCP setting installed with Avids.
You'd need to find one from somebody or create it youself, which
should be very easy to do. Actually if an experienced FCP editor and
an experienced Avid editor collaborated, you'd probably end up with
something better, though there are certainly people who know both
interfaces well enough to do it on their own.

On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:52 AM, James Culbertson wrote:

> I've not had anyone ask me to use AVID since 2001 or so. Which is fine
> since I prefer FCP. But I recall you can modify AVID key commands. Is
> there an FCP set for AVID (in case I ever need to jump that way in the
> future)?
>
> Yes with regards to Motion. Having an After Effects command set for
> Motion might actually start me on the path to using Motion every once
> in awhile.
>
> Didn't even know about Motion Command Settings until just now...
>
> Thanks!
>
> James
>
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote:
>
>>> Some of you might find Loren Miller's post helpful:
>>>
>>> http://www.avid2fcp.com/?p=20
>>
>> I see that she mentions how you can change the keyboard in FCP to be
>> more like Avid's, but I don't see a layout you can just download. (If
>> it's there, please point me to it! I admit I didn't look real
>> carefully.) Would people find it helpful if there was an Avid-like
>> layout that either came with the app, or that you could download
>> easily?
>>
>> Likewise with Motion and After Effects. Would it be useful to have an
>> After Effects-like keyboard layout you could just switch to?
>>
>> Darrin
>> --
>> Darrin Cardani
>> darrin.cardani@gmail.com
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

I know that Premiere has an Avid and an FCP keyboard setting that you
can just call up.

It doesn't look like FCP has the same thing. It wouldn't be hard to
create one and load it.

In FCP go to Tools > Keyboard layout > Customize or Load or Save
Layout. So if someone made one, it should be easy to load.

You should be able to make an Avid FCP keyboard layout in about 10
minutes.

By the way, I believe, Loren is a man...

On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote:

> > Some of you might find Loren Miller's post helpful:
> >
> > http://www.avid2fcp.com/?p=20
>
> I see that she mentions how you can change the keyboard in FCP to be
> more like Avid's, but I don't see a layout you can just download. (If
> it's there, please point me to it! I admit I didn't look real
> carefully.) Would people find it helpful if there was an Avid-like
> layout that either came with the app, or that you could download
> easily?
>
> Likewise with Motion and After Effects. Would it be useful to have an
> After Effects-like keyboard layout you could just switch to?
>
> Darrin
> --
> Darrin Cardani
> darrin.cardani@gmail.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] The Real story about controversial WW2 film archival procedures

You can't believe everything you read on the internet. I spoke
directly to the editor. Nearly ALL of the footage was transferred by
post-production companies that have exclusive agreements (because they
are VERY CAREFUL AND SKILLED) to transfer footage from these rare
resources. If you have ever tried to use footage from the National
Archives you would know this. That is why I did the interview with
Lumiere in the first place. I knew that the story had to be
essentially bogus and it is.

Lumiere confirmed that one reel of 8mm family film from the 1940s was
damaged in projection but not horribly. So griping about "killing 60
year old source materials" is about the same as worrying that men are
being seduced into hotel rooms where their kidneys are being cut out
and they wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a note "Call a hospital
immediately" taped to their chest. Some things aren't true. Hopefully,
your schools system has the same ban against using Wikipedia as ours
does.

On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:33 AM, Eric J. Gleske wrote:

> The "raging debate" as I've been following it on the AMIA list is
> about the admission by one of the folks involved that the production
> team transferred some of the footage by shooting it with a Red off a
> wall, destroying some originals in the projector as part of the
> process.
>
> To quote from the "behind the scenes" promotional materials:
>
> "...at times, after taking a film out of the canister for the first
> time 60 years after it was shot, Tom Schinstine (our engineer and
> projectionist extraordinaire) would tell us that he thought we could
> only project the film once. So we did and made sure all the settings
> were correct on the RED! Most of the time, we were able to preserve
> it as the film basically self destructed by the end of the reel.
> Sometimes, the film was not recoverable."
>
> Killing 60-year-old source materials film to make a cable TV
> show...that's the gripe.
>
> Eric Gleske
> Somewhere in Oregon
>
> --
> --------------------
> "Whenever I got involved in anything related to a university,
> I was reminded of how seriously everyone took everything,
> particularly themselves, and I had to keep a firm grip
> on my impulse to make fun."
> ~Robert B. Parker, "Hush Money" (1999)
>
>

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

I've not had anyone ask me to use AVID since 2001 or so. Which is fine
since I prefer FCP. But I recall you can modify AVID key commands. Is
there an FCP set for AVID (in case I ever need to jump that way in the
future)?

Yes with regards to Motion. Having an After Effects command set for
Motion might actually start me on the path to using Motion every once
in awhile.

Didn't even know about Motion Command Settings until just now...

Thanks!

James

On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

> Some of you might find Loren Miller's post helpful:
>
> http://www.avid2fcp.com/?p=20

I see that she mentions how you can change the keyboard in FCP to be
more like Avid's, but I don't see a layout you can just download. (If
it's there, please point me to it! I admit I didn't look real
carefully.) Would people find it helpful if there was an Avid-like
layout that either came with the app, or that you could download easily?

Likewise with Motion and After Effects. Would it be useful to have an
After Effects-like keyboard layout you could just switch to?

Darrin
--
Darrin Cardani
darrin.cardani@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] The Real story about controversial WW2 film archival procedures

The "raging debate" as I've been following it on the AMIA list is
about the admission by one of the folks involved that the production
team transferred some of the footage by shooting it with a Red off a
wall, destroying some originals in the projector as part of the
process.

To quote from the "behind the scenes" promotional materials:

"...at times, after taking a film out of the canister for the first
time 60 years after it was shot, Tom Schinstine (our engineer and
projectionist extraordinaire) would tell us that he thought we could
only project the film once. So we did and made sure all the settings
were correct on the RED! Most of the time, we were able to preserve
it as the film basically self destructed by the end of the reel.
Sometimes, the film was not recoverable."

Killing 60-year-old source materials film to make a cable TV
show...that's the gripe.

Eric Gleske
Somewhere in Oregon

--
--------------------
"Whenever I got involved in anything related to a university,
I was reminded of how seriously everyone took everything,
particularly themselves, and I had to keep a firm grip
on my impulse to make fun."
~Robert B. Parker, "Hush Money" (1999)

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 AM, johnrobmoore wrote:

> In fact switching from Avid to FCP is a lot like switching deck
> chairs on the Titanic.

I used to refer to it as "your choice - top or bottom" but that
offended even *more* people (at least once they figured out what I was
referring to :)

Oh well - I'll stop back around mid January and see what's going on.
Maybe it'll be time for 8K RED or something :)

later-
-jimmy

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Re: [FCP-L] The Real story about controversial WW2 film archival procedures

Thanks very much, Steve. The subject is fascinating.

Steve:
> He also described the way the footage was searched for using an
> elaborate FileMaker database and that one of the benefits of his
> project is that now, large amounts of the National Archives footage
> that had never been well cataloged before is now very precisely and
> accurately cataloged.

This would be very interesting to learn how they organize the catalog.

> He also described the goal of the editing of the program, which seems
> very unique in documentary editing.

Again, would love to know more.

> I will transcribe the entire interview as quickly as possible

Thanks very much.

don
--
don schaefer

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Shane Ross wrote:

> Yes, CLIP COLLISION stinks...yes, you have to so something else.

And since there's no straightforward "I know what I'm doing so please
just let me do it" override, I reckon I will.

> As was said, get your head out of AVID and into FCP.

I... I...

Hey! Smoke on a Mac!!!!!

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Jimmy,
Here's a way to remember. Every time you have to nudge your edit just think of the SS Titanic. In fact switching from Avid to FCP is a lot like switching deck chairs on the Titanic. We're all going down one way or another. ;-) I'd be careful picking on Jimmy he's got some trained attack Ferrets.

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Dutt <bytemonkey@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:42 PM, Nick Meyers wrote:
>
> > if it's one clip,
> > summon the SLIDE tool (ss) before nudging
>
> Ahhh, yes... for a single segment that seems to do just the trick.
>
> > sliding more than one clip at a time gives weird, un-intended results.
> > in my experience.
>
>
> Yeah - it gets funky at edit points within the outer boundaries for
> sure, but I'm too tired to try and figure out the math.
>
> Thanks for the ss tip - hopefully I'll remember it :)
>
> -jimmy
>

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:42 PM, Nick Meyers wrote:

> if it's one clip,
> summon the SLIDE tool (ss) before nudging

Ahhh, yes... for a single segment that seems to do just the trick.

> sliding more than one clip at a time gives weird, un-intended results.
> in my experience.

Yeah - it gets funky at edit points within the outer boundaries for
sure, but I'm too tired to try and figure out the math.

Thanks for the ss tip - hopefully I'll remember it :)

-jimmy

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[FCP-L] Sony NXCam coming soon...

AVCHD h.264 Camcorder with SMPTE Timecode - replacement for the Z5

http://tinyurl.com/y95jgce

The format wars continue...

Tim McLaughlin
Avid and Final Cut Editor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] export settings change

yah, ive seen that before.
trash your preferences.

nick

On 18/11/2009, at 4:17 AM, Andy Edwards wrote:

> I'm building a year end compilation of all the guests on our weekly
> show. I open the Media managed shows from a fw drive, copy a clip
> with the shots I need to re-export to a new sequence. Mark my In &
> Out ,then export just the video with current settings. I can do about
> 6 of these and then FCP acts up. After I select export, the normal
> export menu changes to include left,right or center audio for the next
> 3 clips then the export menu changes again to include #gungSo font.
> There are TXT slugs for documenting where the show clips came from,
> but I am not including the slug in the export. I'm having to name each
> clip so a batch of the entire sequence won't work. To fix this, I am
> having to close FCP, and reboot. When I re-start I am back to normal,
> but the export issue comes back after just 6 exports.
>
> Anyone seen this or have any tips I could try to get this complete
> without all the reboots?
>
> System info:
> Tiger 10.4.11
> FCP 6.0.06
> XSan Environment
>
> Andy Edwards
>
>

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Yes, CLIP COLLISION stinks...yes, you have to so something else. As
was said, get your head out of AVID and into FCP.

And why you think it isn't "pro" simply because of this, is beyond
me. I use both to deliver broadcast shows without nary a hiccup.
There are problems on both ends that need a little figuring on how to
get around, but they both get the job done.

-shane

On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Jimmy Dutt wrote:

>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:03 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:
>
> > I can always tell when an interface was designed by an engineer as
> > opposed to an operator.
>
> Speaking of which...
>
> Does anyone know how to disable (permanently or otherwise) this "Clip
> Collision on V1" crap on FCP 6 so it will allow me to simply nudge a
> selected V1 segment a frame or two over an existing V1 segment?
>
> Alternatively, please post the secret code to enable the "Pro" part of
> FCP.
>
> thanks-
> -jimmy
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

if it's one clip,
summon the SLIDE tool (ss) before nudging

sliding more than one clip at a time gives weird, un-intended results.
in my experience.

now there's something avid does better:
slipping and sliding a RANGE of clips... in the trim window, to boot.

nick

On 18/11/2009, at 3:14 PM, Jimmy Dutt wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:30 PM, Multimediac wrote:

> Please stop bitching that FCP isn't Avid. Its a different approach,
> adapt or fall behind.

I wasn't aware that FCP had re-revolutionized simple, basic segment-
based editing. I guess I *have* fallen behind.

> Select the end of the clip you want to butt into, type -1 (or +1
> depending) on the keyboard to trim off a frame... then nudge away.

Knitting with pliers seems more straightforward, but if that's how the
kids are doing it these days :(

thanks?
-jimmy

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Please stop bitching that FCP isn't Avid. Its a different approach, adapt or fall behind.

Select the end of the clip you want to butt into, type -1 (or +1 depending) on the keyboard to trim off a frame... then nudge away.

Geeeez

Speaking of which...

Does anyone know how to disable (permanently or otherwise) this "Clip

Collision on V1" crap on FCP 6 so it will allow me to simply nudge a

selected V1 segment a frame or two over an existing V1 segment?

Alternatively, please post the secret code to enable the "Pro" part of

FCP.

thanks-

-jimmy

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:03 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:

> I can always tell when an interface was designed by an engineer as
> opposed to an operator.

Speaking of which...

Does anyone know how to disable (permanently or otherwise) this "Clip
Collision on V1" crap on FCP 6 so it will allow me to simply nudge a
selected V1 segment a frame or two over an existing V1 segment?

Alternatively, please post the secret code to enable the "Pro" part of
FCP.

thanks-
-jimmy

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

What would happen if Smith Corona, probably dating myself, came out with a new typewriter and moved the "E" key? Why did Sony switch the stop and play buttons on their linear editors, talk about Fing with you. Why didn't avid look at a CMX keyboard before doing whatever the hell they felt like? Why did two different DVEs from Grass Valley switch target and source space functions. Most common answer I've found is different design teams even within the same company. I can always tell when an interface was designed by an engineer as opposed to an operator.

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, Shane Ross <comeback@...> wrote:
>
> Dude...I know. I was trying to be humorous. I guess I forgot the
> (lol).
>
> Just saying that when you work for a long time on one system, then
> move to the other, for the first few days at least, you are mentally
> still in the mindset for the other NLE, so you might instinctually
> press a set of commands for FCP that in Avid do something completely
> different, or the reverse.
>
> But I am opposite to you in that I think that the ability to
> manipulate things on the timeline in FCP is much easier and faster
> than what I can do on an Avid. But then Avid has other strengths that
> make me faster on it too.
>
> I know... I know...
> -shane
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:
>
> > That's because x doesn't mark in to out in an Avid. It's not the
> > Avid's fault that you hit the wrong button. Same with "segment
> > editing." The two systems operate differently. I encounter these same
> > issues going back and forth between Avid and FCP myself, but because
> > my BEGINNING experience has been on the Avid for nearly eighteen
> > years, I wonder why "FCP does it backwards." The two simply work
> > differently, and has been said many times, you can't edit on FCP the
> > same way you edited on Avid. You have to re-think the process for FCP
> > to work. Just as, if you start on FCP, you have to rethink the process
> > for Avid to work.
> >
> > For me, the timeline behaves very strangely in FCP because there are
> > so many states of the timeline to keep track of and so many "micro-
> > touches" to make that slow you down. In this way, having to go into
> > segment mode on Avid is better, because on FCP you can cause so many
> > different functions and behaviors based on touching just a few pixels
> > off from where you really want to touch. On an Avid, if you want to
> > put a keyframe on the last frame of audio, you just click. But in FCP,
> > if you option-click too close to the transition, you select or enable
> > the transition. Or you get a different behavior if you drag the top or
> > bottom of the clip. These are all things you just need to get used to
> > in FCP, just the same as you need to operate the Avid like its meant
> > to be operated. All the things you complain about are things I love -
> > or hate about FCP.
> >
> > Like - you leave your playhead (timline indicator) in FCP at a spot
> > and want to zoom in, but instead you actually zoom in on a clip or
> > transition that you may have selected a while ago. Or worse, you mark
> > an in and an out and hit delete, thinking that you're deleting what
> > you just marked, but actually you delete something that is selected
> > instead.
> >
> > I'm working on FCP right now. In a few minutes, if I get notes back
> > from my client for another project, I'll spin my chair around and edit
> > the revisions for that project on an Avid. It definitely takes some
> > getting used to and there are things that I wish I had from the other
> > system every time I spin around. But you have to use the tools like
> > they're meant to be used.
> >
> > Hitting X on an Avid and cutting something out isn't a bug. It's
> > operator error.
> >
> > On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:09 PM, Shane Ross wrote:
> >
> > > Like wanting to mark IN to OUT, so you press X. BUT WAIT, you are in
> > > AVID, so that CUTS out something that was marked IN and OUT
> > earlier in
> > > the cut.
> > >
> > > Or if you are in Avid and you try to grab a clip over and over, but
> > > you can't, and you remember, "oh yeah, I have to activate Segment
> > > Mode." Or if you are coming from Avid to FCP and you just want to
> > > move your playhead and you move a clip across the timeline and
> > > overwrite something.
> > >
> > > Takes me a few days to get my feet steady when I switch...
> > >
> > > I could open with that...
> > >
> > > -shane
> > >
> > > On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:02 PM, switthaus wrote:
> > >
> > >> My comment was in jest, however I would bet what he talks about has
> > >> been hashed over on these forums many many times...
> > >>
> > >> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy"
> > >> <oliverpeters@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott,
> > >>>
> > >>>> switthaus wrote:
> > >>>> Welcome to the real world, Walter! Most of us bounce between
> > >> systems
> > >>>> all the time, we just don't hold a conference about it.
> > >>>
> > >>> In all fairness, it's LAFCPUG's event. Walter is gracious enough
> > >> to present and they like having him because he's a good draw.
> > >> Besides, on most of the recent films, he has been cutting picture
> > on
> > >> FCP, some audio on Pro Tools and mixing on an ICON.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Oliver
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [FCP-L] The Real story about controversial WW2 film archival procedures

I thought I did that.

On Nov 17, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Andy Edwards wrote:

>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:
>
> > I don't want this to seem like spam, but the Cinematographers
> Mailing
> > List and the Telecine Interest Group have been having a raging
> debate
> > for most of the day about a series on the History Channel on World
> > War .
> >
> > SNIP
>
> Steve,
>
> It might be helpful to post your findings to the TIG as well.
>
> Most of the debate I can see is from what is seen in the promotional
> piece on the History Channel web site. ( http://www.history.com/content/wwii-in-hd/videos/preserving-history)
> A RED camera pointed at a wall, a film projector shooting a wall.
> Hopefully your interview will bring out the true story vs. the History
> Channel promo piece.
>
> Andy Edwards
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [FCP-L] The Real story about controversial WW2 film archival procedures

On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:

> I don't want this to seem like spam, but the Cinematographers Mailing
> List and the Telecine Interest Group have been having a raging debate
> for most of the day about a series on the History Channel on World
> War .
>
> SNIP

Steve,

It might be helpful to post your findings to the TIG as well.

Most of the debate I can see is from what is seen in the promotional
piece on the History Channel web site. ( http://www.history.com/content/wwii-in-hd/videos/preserving-history)
A RED camera pointed at a wall, a film projector shooting a wall.
Hopefully your interview will bring out the true story vs. the History
Channel promo piece.

Andy Edwards

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] The Real story about controversial WW2 film archival procedures

I don't want this to seem like spam, but the Cinematographers Mailing
List and the Telecine Interest Group have been having a raging debate
for most of the day about a series on the History Channel on World War
2. It seems that people were worried that the director of the film had
carelessly destroyed priceless historical WW2 color footage by
incorrectly transferring it with a RED camera and some projectors.
This is false.

I just interviewed Mr. Lumiere on the telephone for about an hour.

The guy is not an idiot. The story about how the film was destroyed as
it was projected was taken out of context. It DID happen that on a
single reel of someone's 8mm footage, there was some small - but
recoverable - damage to the sprockets.

The footage of someone shooting stuff off a wall was some 8mm footage.
And they DID actually use low-cost home video cameras at the National
Archives to shoot the projection screen so that they could know what
they needed to come back and have professionally transferred.

All of the National Archives footage was transferred professionally on
a C-Reality telecine direct to ProResHD 4:2:2 or in some cases
uncompressed HD.
All of the stuff from Europe was transferred on a Cinetel telecine to
HD QTs.

The footage from the Navy and Marines was transferred using what Mr.
Lumiere describes as a "telecine where they replaced the old
camera" (which he thinks was an Ikegami) with a RED. My guess is that
this probably wasn't a real telecine, but a film chain, which is
similar.

He also described the way the footage was searched for using an
elaborate FileMaker database and that one of the benefits of his
project is that now, large amounts of the National Archives footage
that had never been well cataloged before is now very precisely and
accurately cataloged.

He also described the goal of the editing of the program, which seems
very unique in documentary editing.

I will transcribe the entire interview as quickly as possible and put
it up on www.provideocoalition.com. I'll respond again when it is
ready. It was a very enlightening interview.

Steve Hullfish

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Some of you might find Loren Miller's post helpful:

http://www.avid2fcp.com/?p=20

- Oliver

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

thanks

On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:05 PM, jwyoung5 wrote:

> Remap your "zoom in" to "zoom in on playhead in timeline" and you
> will no longer have this problem.
>
> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hullfish
> <steve4lists@...> wrote:
>
> > Like - you leave your playhead (timline indicator) in FCP at a spot
> > and want to zoom in, but instead you actually zoom in on a clip or
> > transition that you may have selected a while ago.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

This one makes me CRAZY because it always happens when I'm in a huge hurry. I end up clicking on one of the 30 tabs that line up across the top of my timeline. I really really wish that track was re-sizable.

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, David Dodson <davidadodson@...> wrote:
>
> And another thing... (not to turn this into a "let's slag on FCP session" but...) what's with the FCP playhead? In Avid you can drag it all around regardless of where you pick it up. But in FCP you can only move it from inside that tiny little track across the top of the timeline. It's like hitting a tiny mountain runway in your 747; you gotta be perfect or lord only knows what you'll do.
>
> David
> David Dodson

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Remap your "zoom in" to "zoom in on playhead in timeline" and you will no longer have this problem.

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@...> wrote:

> Like - you leave your playhead (timline indicator) in FCP at a spot
> and want to zoom in, but instead you actually zoom in on a clip or
> transition that you may have selected a while ago.

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Dude...I know. I was trying to be humorous. I guess I forgot the
(lol).

Just saying that when you work for a long time on one system, then
move to the other, for the first few days at least, you are mentally
still in the mindset for the other NLE, so you might instinctually
press a set of commands for FCP that in Avid do something completely
different, or the reverse.

But I am opposite to you in that I think that the ability to
manipulate things on the timeline in FCP is much easier and faster
than what I can do on an Avid. But then Avid has other strengths that
make me faster on it too.

I know... I know...
-shane

On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:

> That's because x doesn't mark in to out in an Avid. It's not the
> Avid's fault that you hit the wrong button. Same with "segment
> editing." The two systems operate differently. I encounter these same
> issues going back and forth between Avid and FCP myself, but because
> my BEGINNING experience has been on the Avid for nearly eighteen
> years, I wonder why "FCP does it backwards." The two simply work
> differently, and has been said many times, you can't edit on FCP the
> same way you edited on Avid. You have to re-think the process for FCP
> to work. Just as, if you start on FCP, you have to rethink the process
> for Avid to work.
>
> For me, the timeline behaves very strangely in FCP because there are
> so many states of the timeline to keep track of and so many "micro-
> touches" to make that slow you down. In this way, having to go into
> segment mode on Avid is better, because on FCP you can cause so many
> different functions and behaviors based on touching just a few pixels
> off from where you really want to touch. On an Avid, if you want to
> put a keyframe on the last frame of audio, you just click. But in FCP,
> if you option-click too close to the transition, you select or enable
> the transition. Or you get a different behavior if you drag the top or
> bottom of the clip. These are all things you just need to get used to
> in FCP, just the same as you need to operate the Avid like its meant
> to be operated. All the things you complain about are things I love -
> or hate about FCP.
>
> Like - you leave your playhead (timline indicator) in FCP at a spot
> and want to zoom in, but instead you actually zoom in on a clip or
> transition that you may have selected a while ago. Or worse, you mark
> an in and an out and hit delete, thinking that you're deleting what
> you just marked, but actually you delete something that is selected
> instead.
>
> I'm working on FCP right now. In a few minutes, if I get notes back
> from my client for another project, I'll spin my chair around and edit
> the revisions for that project on an Avid. It definitely takes some
> getting used to and there are things that I wish I had from the other
> system every time I spin around. But you have to use the tools like
> they're meant to be used.
>
> Hitting X on an Avid and cutting something out isn't a bug. It's
> operator error.
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:09 PM, Shane Ross wrote:
>
> > Like wanting to mark IN to OUT, so you press X. BUT WAIT, you are in
> > AVID, so that CUTS out something that was marked IN and OUT
> earlier in
> > the cut.
> >
> > Or if you are in Avid and you try to grab a clip over and over, but
> > you can't, and you remember, "oh yeah, I have to activate Segment
> > Mode." Or if you are coming from Avid to FCP and you just want to
> > move your playhead and you move a clip across the timeline and
> > overwrite something.
> >
> > Takes me a few days to get my feet steady when I switch...
> >
> > I could open with that...
> >
> > -shane
> >
> > On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:02 PM, switthaus wrote:
> >
> >> My comment was in jest, however I would bet what he talks about has
> >> been hashed over on these forums many many times...
> >>
> >> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy"
> >> <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Scott,
> >>>
> >>>> switthaus wrote:
> >>>> Welcome to the real world, Walter! Most of us bounce between
> >> systems
> >>>> all the time, we just don't hold a conference about it.
> >>>
> >>> In all fairness, it's LAFCPUG's event. Walter is gracious enough
> >> to present and they like having him because he's a good draw.
> >> Besides, on most of the recent films, he has been cutting picture
> on
> >> FCP, some audio on Pro Tools and mixing on an ICON.
> >>>
> >>> - Oliver
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

And another thing... (not to turn this into a "let's slag on FCP session" but...) what's with the FCP playhead? In Avid you can drag it all around regardless of where you pick it up. But in FCP you can only move it from inside that tiny little track across the top of the timeline. It's like hitting a tiny mountain runway in your 747; you gotta be perfect or lord only knows what you'll do.

David
David Dodson
davidadodson@sbcglobal.net
818-541-1225
818-523-0905 mobile

________________________________
From: Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com>
To: FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 2:38:15 PM
Subject: Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

That's because x doesn't mark in to out in an Avid. It's not the
Avid's fault that you hit the wrong button. Same with "segment
editing." The two systems operate differently. I encounter these same
issues going back and forth between Avid and FCP myself, but because
my BEGINNING experience has been on the Avid for nearly eighteen
years, I wonder why "FCP does it backwards." The two simply work
differently, and has been said many times, you can't edit on FCP the
same way you edited on Avid. You have to re-think the process for FCP
to work. Just as, if you start on FCP, you have to rethink the process
for Avid to work.

For me, the timeline behaves very strangely in FCP because there are
so many states of the timeline to keep track of and so many "micro-
touches" to make that slow you down. In this way, having to go into
segment mode on Avid is better, because on FCP you can cause so many
different functions and behaviors based on touching just a few pixels
off from where you really want to touch. On an Avid, if you want to
put a keyframe on the last frame of audio, you just click. But in FCP,
if you option-click too close to the transition, you select or enable
the transition. Or you get a different behavior if you drag the top or
bottom of the clip. These are all things you just need to get used to
in FCP, just the same as you need to operate the Avid like its meant
to be operated. All the things you complain about are things I love -
or hate about FCP.

Like - you leave your playhead (timline indicator) in FCP at a spot
and want to zoom in, but instead you actually zoom in on a clip or
transition that you may have selected a while ago. Or worse, you mark
an in and an out and hit delete, thinking that you're deleting what
you just marked, but actually you delete something that is selected
instead.

I'm working on FCP right now. In a few minutes, if I get notes back
from my client for another project, I'll spin my chair around and edit
the revisions for that project on an Avid. It definitely takes some
getting used to and there are things that I wish I had from the other
system every time I spin around. But you have to use the tools like
they're meant to be used.

Hitting X on an Avid and cutting something out isn't a bug. It's
operator error.

On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:09 PM, Shane Ross wrote:

> Like wanting to mark IN to OUT, so you press X. BUT WAIT, you are in
> AVID, so that CUTS out something that was marked IN and OUT earlier in
> the cut.
>
> Or if you are in Avid and you try to grab a clip over and over, but
> you can't, and you remember, "oh yeah, I have to activate Segment
> Mode." Or if you are coming from Avid to FCP and you just want to
> move your playhead and you move a clip across the timeline and
> overwrite something.
>
> Takes me a few days to get my feet steady when I switch...
>
> I could open with that...
>
> -shane
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:02 PM, switthaus wrote:
>
>> My comment was in jest, however I would bet what he talks about has
>> been hashed over on these forums many many times...
>>
>> --- In FinalCutPro- L@yahoogroups. com, "oliverpetersvidy"
>> <oliverpeters@ ...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>>> switthaus wrote:
>>>> Welcome to the real world, Walter! Most of us bounce between
>> systems
>>>> all the time, we just don't hold a conference about it.
>>>
>>> In all fairness, it's LAFCPUG's event. Walter is gracious enough
>> to present and they like having him because he's a good draw.
>> Besides, on most of the recent films, he has been cutting picture on
>> FCP, some audio on Pro Tools and mixing on an ICON.
>>>
>>> - Oliver
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro- L group, please visit
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FinalCutPr o-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Hitting X on an Avid and cutting something out isn't a bug. It's
operator error.

On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:09 PM, Shane Ross wrote:

> Like wanting to mark IN to OUT, so you press X. BUT WAIT, you are in
> AVID, so that CUTS out something that was marked IN and OUT earlier in
> the cut.
>
> Or if you are in Avid and you try to grab a clip over and over, but
> you can't, and you remember, "oh yeah, I have to activate Segment
> Mode." Or if you are coming from Avid to FCP and you just want to
> move your playhead and you move a clip across the timeline and
> overwrite something.
>
> Takes me a few days to get my feet steady when I switch...
>
> I could open with that...
>
> -shane
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:02 PM, switthaus wrote:
>
>> My comment was in jest, however I would bet what he talks about has
>> been hashed over on these forums many many times...
>>
>> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy"
>> <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>>> switthaus wrote:
>>>> Welcome to the real world, Walter! Most of us bounce between
>> systems
>>>> all the time, we just don't hold a conference about it.
>>>
>>> In all fairness, it's LAFCPUG's event. Walter is gracious enough
>> to present and they like having him because he's a good draw.
>> Besides, on most of the recent films, he has been cutting picture on
>> FCP, some audio on Pro Tools and mixing on an ICON.
>>>
>>> - Oliver
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To learn more about the FinalCutPro-L group, please visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-LYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------

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[FCP-L] Location audio sync

Hello folks, I hope you can help me.

Scenario:
Multicam project shot on HVX-200 cameras.
Final Cut ID's the footage thusly: DVCPro HD 720p60 | 23.98 fps.

Audio recorded separately via Nuendo (not sure which version).

These are WAV files: 48 KHz 24-bit integer

I let FCP create a new sequence to match the footage. These are its audio properties:
48 KHz 24-bit

Problem:
The location audio files do not match the camera audio. It is noticeably higher in pitch.
Outside of FCP (QT Player) this is evident as well.

I am thinking there is some type of sample rate mismatch, but Footage, Timeline, and Audio files are all at 48 KHz.

Sound guys says audio was recorded directly to disk through Nuendo.
The files I have were copied from the disk. No export, mixdown, etc.

Any advice or insight is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jesse Gordon

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Re: [FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

Like wanting to mark IN to OUT, so you press X. BUT WAIT, you are in
AVID, so that CUTS out something that was marked IN and OUT earlier in
the cut.

Or if you are in Avid and you try to grab a clip over and over, but
you can't, and you remember, "oh yeah, I have to activate Segment
Mode." Or if you are coming from Avid to FCP and you just want to
move your playhead and you move a clip across the timeline and
overwrite something.

Takes me a few days to get my feet steady when I switch...

I could open with that...

-shane

On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:02 PM, switthaus wrote:

> My comment was in jest, however I would bet what he talks about has
> been hashed over on these forums many many times...
>
> --- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy"
> <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > > switthaus wrote:
> > > Welcome to the real world, Walter! Most of us bounce between
> systems
> > > all the time, we just don't hold a conference about it.
> >
> > In all fairness, it's LAFCPUG's event. Walter is gracious enough
> to present and they like having him because he's a good draw.
> Besides, on most of the recent films, he has been cutting picture on
> FCP, some audio on Pro Tools and mixing on an ICON.
> >
> > - Oliver
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[FCP-L] Re: Murch "back on Avid" for at least one film...

My comment was in jest, however I would bet what he talks about has been hashed over on these forums many many times...

--- In FinalCutPro-L@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> > switthaus wrote:
> > Welcome to the real world, Walter! Most of us bounce between systems
> > all the time, we just don't hold a conference about it.
>
> In all fairness, it's LAFCPUG's event. Walter is gracious enough to present and they like having him because he's a good draw. Besides, on most of the recent films, he has been cutting picture on FCP, some audio on Pro Tools and mixing on an ICON.
>
> - Oliver
>

------------------------------------

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[FCP-L] export settings change

I'm building a year end compilation of all the guests on our weekly
show. I open the Media managed shows from a fw drive, copy a clip
with the shots I need to re-export to a new sequence. Mark my In &
Out ,then export just the video with current settings. I can do about
6 of these and then FCP acts up. After I select export, the normal
export menu changes to include left,right or center audio for the next
3 clips then the export menu changes again to include #gungSo font.
There are TXT slugs for documenting where the show clips came from,
but I am not including the slug in the export. I'm having to name each
clip so a batch of the entire sequence won't work. To fix this, I am
having to close FCP, and reboot. When I re-start I am back to normal,
but the export issue comes back after just 6 exports.

Anyone seen this or have any tips I could try to get this complete
without all the reboots?

System info:
Tiger 10.4.11
FCP 6.0.06
XSan Environment

Andy Edwards

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[FCP-L] Free Pan & Zoom plug-in from Noise Industries

"The Pan and Zoom plug-ins let you create the photo animation style made
popular by Ken Burns with intuitive controls and automatic motion control
that achieves stunning results without a single keyframe."

More info, download links here:

<http://www.noiseindustries.com/fxfactory/panandzoom/>

Note the plug-in requires Noise Industries' free FxFactory engine (also
downloadable at the above page.

Jim "found it via a Studiodaily advert email" Feeley

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